Talk:GEOSS AIP AQ Scenario/Archive 1
Pre-Ispra meeting material Archived on 24 May 2008 Davidmccabe 15:21, 24 April 2008 (EDT) -- Davidmccabe 15:21, 24 April 2008 (EDT)[edit source | reply | new]
AQ AIP Announced - AIP Plenary Telecon GPercivall 22 January 2008[edit source | reply | new]
2008 January 22 - Telecon
- DATE: Tuesday, 22 January 2008
- TIME: 14:00:00 UTC
- Check your local time
- WebEx logistics are provided below .
- Draft Agenda
- ADC meeting and Architecture Workshop Logistics
- Architecture Workshop, Feb 4 and 5
- Workshop announcement
- ADC-6 meeting, Feb 6 and 7
- Both hosted by EC/JRC, Ispra, Italy
- Participants should have registered before 15 January 2008.
- Contact George Percivall before 22 January if you plan to attend and have not registered
- Workshop Sessions
- Agenda and session descriptions - draft:
- UIC/ADC Scenario sessions
- Air Quality and Health: Phil Dickerson
- Nautral Disaster Response: Guy Séguin
- Energy - Solar: Lionel Menard
- Biodiversity: Douglas Muchoney, et. al.
- Water/Drought monitoring: David Arctur
- Intercalibration Scenario - Stephen Ungar
- Implementation Sessions
- Initial Operating Capability: Doug Nebert
- Clearinghouse, Catalogues, Registries: Doug Nebert
- User Portals and Applications: Ingo Simonis
- Test Facility and Service Registration: Paul Smits
- Sensors Interoperability: Ingo Simonis
- Workflow: Pier Giorgio Marchetti
- Opening and Closing Plenaries
- Call for Position Papers
- To prepare for productive sessions, we are seeking position papers (1 to 3 pages) on the topics of the sessions.
- Add a comment to a Session page and include a link to your paper.
- Or, send your position paper to George Percivall and it will be posted and linked to a session page
- Any other business
- Future Telecon: 12 February 2008, 1400 UTC
Notes from today's telecon are now posted Actions from the telecon:
- All Session Leaders to develop draft scenarios before the workshop
- All are invited to post or provide position papers on topics for the sessions.
- Revise agenda to deconflict Test Facility and Workflow sessions - Done.
- Percivall to invite Els LeDrew to provide an UIC statement during the Opening Session
- All to aid in completing and correcting the table on task coordination
- Percivall to send Muchoney information about the Agriculture Monitoring scenario developers.
Change in AQ Scenario Development Leadership -- PDickerson 00:24, 22 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Rudy: Lots of things changed in the last day. The new AIP Contact is John White, AIRNow team, So, please work with John between now and the workshop. I will also be involved and will lend a hand as much as possible.
Re: Change in AQ Scenario Development Leadership -- Rhusar 00:24, 22 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Hello Phil, Thanks for the update. Please note that George Percivall will need to know that John White will be attending the Ispra JRC Meeting. Since there is an AIP telecon on Jan. 22, would it be possible to talk about the AIP on Monday? In the mean time, at George's request we will be adding background material to the OGC AIP website pertaining the Air Quality scenario.
ESIP Participation in Scenario Development -- TKeating 00:27, 22 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Phil et al.,Rudy and other ESIP folks are interested in the 'GEOSS Scenario' for the Ispra meeting. This group would like to help out with this... I've cc'd a few people.
Wiki Workspace -- Rhusar 00:31, 22 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
AQ Scenario and Workspace: The air quality scenario for the Ispra Workshop will be maintained on the OGC Site. In addition, wiki workspace for the development of the AIP Air Quality Scenario has been established on the ESIP Wiki. The community is encouraged to contribute their ideas here.
Re: Wiki Workspace -- StuFrye 12:27, 23 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
There are many scenarios that cut across discipline areas, but which can be supported by the same set of tools and sensors. The scenarios need to be constructed so that they can be demonstrated on a more global scale than under the AIP phase 1. Restricting the scenario to a single region and single event does not show how the GEOSS offering scales to a global application, so we need to structure the scenarios to take advantage of the global nature of many of our tools and sensor platforms. Air quality assessment should be a combination of modeled results and observation measurements. There should be successive interaction between the models and the observation capabilities so that a feedback loop between the two can be demonstrated. Air quality models should be structured so they accept real observations as well as simulated data as starting point inputs. For smoke from wildfires, the starting point can be calculated by satellite observation from MODIS, Landsat, EO-1 and others. A centroid calculation needs to be provided as a Web Feature Service that would feed the model with fire start locations from these satellites. The model should produce a smoke map or visualization of the progression of a plume. Predicted map should be compared to actual images acquired via sensor web autonomous triggers. The image data should further be processed to create a smoke product...especially the EO-1 Hyperspectral data...as a Web Processing Service. The discovery of these capabilities should be provided by user friendly portals, catalogs, clearinghouses, and registries. The Components and Services Registry needs to be integrated with the Standards registry so they stay in synchronization. The registries should be automatically harvested by the portals to construct the GEOSS offerings. The Portals should also harvest clearinghouse and catalog data instead of being constructed by hand from survey responses supplied by participating organizations. Scenarios should include unmanned robotic sensor platforms and in-situ continuous readout sensors as well as static data sets for mash-ups and visualization mapping.
Re: Re: Wiki Workspace -- Rhusar 14:15, 23 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Very good points, Stu!. The suggestion to make the scenario applicable to any region is indeed appropriate, since (1) Smoke from major fires occur over many areas of the world (2) many of datastes come from the same source (e.g. satellite, global surface weather obs); (3) the sensory-motor functionality, detection-assessment-action, is quite common to all regions and (4) sharing and integrating the resources and methods into a System of Systems is in the spirit of GEOSS. Also, iterative linking of smoke observations and models through data fusion and assimilation into models is also a very important a timely suggestion. Lets see what the observation and modeling communities can do to raise interoperability to the next level (obs-model).
Re: Wiki Workspace - Attach this discussion to pilot scenario page??? -- Davidmccabe 18:38, 25 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Rudy, Stefan, Everyone - how about we move this very useful discussion from here to the discussion page attached to the GEOSS AIOP Pilot Scenario page? Seems this might be a lot more straightforward. Thoughts??
Adding in the media, public as actors... -- Davidmccabe 00:55, 25 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
I've added / fleshed out a number of items to the scenario wiki. A theme I am trying to build in there is that the public are relevant decision makers for AQ problems during a fire. Media is an essential bridge to the public.
I've uploaded a link here and in the Scenario wiki to a one page white paper that John White and I wrote about AirNow during the S. Calif. 2007 fires. (This paper is submission to a USGEO paper on the USG response to the fires.)
Re: Adding in the media, public as actors... -- JWhite 14:45, 25 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
This echoes what I was thinking...so I am with you. Others may can provide a better GEO spin?
Re: Adding in the media, public as actors... -- PDickerson 14:47, 25 January 2008 (EST)=[edit source | reply | new]
David: Good comments! I'll leave it to Rudy and John as to how best to incorporate them, but I think your comments are really at the root of the whole scenario. You made me think of a few comments of my own. I believe someone on one of the ADC calls pointed out the need for "large scale" scenarios, i.e. scenarios that cross national boundaries and are globally applicable. I wonder if we might take a lesson from the Alaska wildfire example, which Jim Szykman has examined in great detail. That is almost a trans-national event, even though Alaska is technically a US state. In that scenario, the fires started far from the typical population centers of the US, yet the ground-level impacts were felt in the Appalachian areas of Kentucky and maybe Georgia and Alabama. So, to me that says we should include transport in the scenario. That automatically brings in satellite data -- both met and air quality -- and perhaps even a "fire detection" function. The SERVIR case study from May 2007 is also an interesting one. Basically, a smoke event ocurred in Central America. Some thought it was a "toxic cloud" coming over from Africa. SERVIR was able to quickly dispel that notion using back-trajectory models and visible sat. imagery. So, it was attributed to local burning. However, there was not an "AIRNow-like" component by which to issue any public health info. Lastly, I wonder if we should include public health information in the scenario. It is far-fetched, but I think it should be part of "the dream". I would end the scenario with an examination of hospital admissions, doctor's office visits, etc. That would allow a feedback loop for future scenarios in which better public information might lead to fewer hospital admissions. The only thing is -- do we have health agencies in GEO? Not sure. -- Phil
Re: Re: Adding in the media, public as actors... -- Davidmccabe 14:48, 25 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
I don't think we are out of bounds to say we would like to see the public health folks using our data. If they are not participating in GEOSS now (and in the USG, health participation is weak) that does not mean we should not push for it. Further, I don't think of USG health agencies as the ones moving the ball forward on AQ epi work (or at least they don't have a monopoly). The GEOSS goal is to push data out to users, not just others 'within'GEOSS. It seems like the AIRNow 2007 Calif event and the SERVIR 2007 event are probably the best stories out there for real-time or near-real-time AQ response to fires. Other examples??? That makes combining SERVIR with AIRNow rather exciting. Actually doing GEOSS !!!! The transboundary events are certainly very interesting. But the strong exposures are more local... at a scale where transport really needs BlueSky RAINS. Is that type of capability existing at SERVIR? Can it be made interoperable so that it can be? Since we are building our perfect geoss machine of the future, it seems like we should pitch for such capabilities.
Re: Re: Re: Adding in the media, public as actors... -- PDickerson 14:50, 25 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Good question on BSK. I don't know the answer! I was thinking very simplistically -- using SERVIR as a "fire spotter", then perhaps doing some sort of modeling to guess where a smoke plume was going. I think BSK has that capability, but I'm not sure that SERVIR is using the same models. In any event, I think the concept is valid -- using satellite to detect fire, then using a compilation of tools and data to predict the plume, followed by ground truthing to measure plume impact and public health. So, the only transboundary phenomenon I was thinking of was transport of the smoke. In Jim's example, the smoke was high above the ground once it left Alaska, but had measurable PM2.5 concentrations in the SouthEast. From a purely health-based perspective, EPA couldn't be of any use while the smoke was aloft, but in the future it would be great to know it was coming! Anyway, I was using Alaska as an example only because the California fires were on such a small scale and don't exactly scale up to a GEOSS example all by themselves. Also, BSK might be the perfect tool to plug in, but I'm not well versed on it. I bet Rudy or Stefan can address that quite well.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Adding in the media, public as actors... -- Sfalke 14:50, 25 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Incorporating Bluesky forecasting would be valuable. In one of our NASA projects as part of NASA's Sensor Web Program, we're working on the use and development of interoperable web service interfaces to foster information flow between sensors and models. The Bluesky model is one of our target models. The group at the Forest Service and Sonoma Technology is presently redesigning the Bluesky framework so that it is modular (and therefore more suitable for integration in a service oriented framework). There's still a lot of work to be done before the model components are "interoperable" or can be "plugged" in but I like the idea of including smoke forecasts and long range transport in the GEOSS scenario to see what could be done for the pilot. The input data we've been working with include surface data, satellite observations (the usual MODIS but also the "taskable" hyperspectral EO-1), and a NASA-Ames UAV (which is somehow involved in the SERVIR project - so another link between those efforts) I'll work on putting together a write-up and posting it to the wiki.
Fire data; aviation users? -- Syoung 12:11, 28 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
I'm not seeing a discussion of fire-specific data as an input. Not that I know this stuff, but I'm guessing there is a need for estimates of the types and quantities of combusted material, and for characterizations of the fire behavior, especially how high up the smoke is going, which I assume is a function both of atmospheric conditions and the behavior of the fire itself.
I'm also wondering about aviation uses. I know that it's a very big deal to track volcanic ash plumes and keep airplanes away from them (especially because volcanic ash kills jet engines). I don't know how much the aviators care about major smoke events - ?? There might be room for further development of potential impacts on ground transportation, too.
Re: Fire data; aviation users? -- Rhusar 20:24, 28 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Steve, Regarding users in aviation and surface transportation, here is a broader list of users/decision-makers that could benefit from the smoke Pilot. It is understood that we cannot address each in detail. However, this list would be important to identify to whom a smoke event trigger should be sent to.
- Informing and advising the Public
- General Public Information - Newspaper, TV...
- Public Health - surface concentration, (American Lung Assoc.)
- Public Safety - Road visibility (DOT), Aviation visibility (FAA)
- Air Quality Regulatory Decision-Support
- Exceptional Event Documentation (State, Regional, Federal)
- Smoke Transport - Inter-Regional, International, Inter-Continental (LRTP, HTAP)
- Atmospheric Science Decision Support
- Smoke Emission Source Characterization
- Transport Mechanisms, Distances, Spatial-Temporal pattern
- Kinetic Processes
Re: Re: Fire data; aviation users? -- Davidmccabe 13:13, 29 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Rudy, you've nicely summed up the three communities that ultimately need support from GEOSS AQ data.
Do we need to identify one of these to focus on in Ispra? It seems that the work on the wiki has mainly focused on identifying data sources and resources / tools. Is this job for after Ispra?
Scenario Background Added -- Rhusar 20:46, 28 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Given the short time for the smoke scenario preparation we are now feeding information into the "pool" in a piece-meal fashion. The new pieces are links to previous Smoke Scenarios as developed for FASTNET and for the NASA Data System Vision. They are found under Historical Smoke Scenarios on the front page of the wiki. We also added another scenario resource: Generic AIP Smoke Scenario. We hope to merge this with the smoke scenario that you have on the wiki. So, this is just a heads up on what is coming down the pipeline for us to work on.
New Scenarios!!! --Davidmccabe 20:19, 30 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
We've changed things quite a bit. Here are three scenarios we would like to present next week.
A. Smoke and Dust events - with a focus on understanding the events, as opposed to real-time / forecast
B. Model evaluation with modern observational tools.
C. AQ forecasts, particularly in areas with a lack of ambient monitors.
This is a big change, to broaden the 'issues' involved while we focus a bit on the decisions we are interested in (as opposed to specifics about the data inputs).
We've created three new pages linked on the front page to these 3 scenarios. As you'll see these pages are largely shameless copies of existing pages. As such they aren't yet even internally consistent. PLEASE HELP us clean these up! Thanks!
Re: New Scenarios!!! -- Rhusar 16:45, 31 January 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Dear Colleagues: The submission of additional scenario items by EPA to the AIP Scenario and the subsequent discussion at the ESIP telecon is the most delightful development I can think of. It provides new ideas and dynamics into the Pilot process. Based on the various conversations, the EPA group can fill in the scenario template which appropriately takes into account the information needs for scientific assessment (historical, in-depth (re)analysis, modeling, etc), as well as real-time/forecast information needs during events.
I know that this is very pretentious thing to say, but I am certain that there WILL be a positive outcome. The vigorous constructive exchange on the telecon about the scenario(s) shows that this group has determination and means business. Also, I cant resist to invoke an academic perspective on group development. This group has evidently moved from the Forming and Storming phases to the Norming (consensus) phase. According to some academics, the preceding Storming phase is a necessary condition for building robust and successful groups. Now we ARE a group. (...soft background music in the background )
GEOSS AIP Telecon Aftermath -- Flindsay 31 January 2008[edit source | reply | new]
Hi Ernie, just to give you a heads up on the outcome of the telecon today. Greg was on and I think we (NASA) have a consensus on at least how we can approach work on a AQ pilot for the upcoming meeting in Ispra. We ended up having a pretty wide ranging discussion on the topic but there was some slight differences of opinion concerning the scope of the pilot and the role of science versus that of delivering some societal benefit. EPA appears to have some of its won differences on that score, but we concluded the Air Now effort would remain an end point for some collection of data and services being delivered to it. Also, EPA offered a mini-scenario that would focus on smoke and dust treated as a ‘exceptional event for state and local AQ managers. I do not have anything more nailed down that this, though we collectively agreed that we should focus on what and who is on hand in the AQ community we are forming around other efforts... such as our NO2 work. Any other thoughts on tying in the ACC would be great. I’ll begin with the documents you have already sent.
Re: GEOSS AIP Telecon Aftermath -- Ehilsenrath 31 January 2008[edit source | reply | new]
Frank Thanks for the update. However your message was not specific as to what the approach to Ispra actually will be. I may have made a tactical error by not having Jack Fishman, his EPA and NOAA collaborators, or me on hand to participate in this telecon to put this ACC project in the right perspective. But we appreciate ESIP participation.
Re: Re: GEOSS AIP Telecon Aftermath -- Jszykman 1 February 2008[edit source | reply | new]
All, I think this is more of a FYI right now, but I received the following e-mail from Ernie yesterday. I am not sure what was discussed yesterday because I was not aware of this call, but this seems related the CEOS-ACC project Jack is leading. Frank would it be possible for you to provide some more details to the group on what is being discussed within ESIP? Also, should someone from the current ACC project join into the ESIP call later this morning?
Re: Re: Re: GEOSS AIP Telecon Aftermath -- Flindsay 1 February 2008[edit source | reply | new]
Hi Jim, I have added two folks to this email exchange, Stefan Falke and Rudy Husar. They head up the ESIP’s Air Quality efforts and of course have their own independent research and analysis efforts. Both Stefan and Rudy have been very active in the build up to the Ispra meeting where the GEOSS pilots will be initiated. Instead of speaking for them, I was hoping they could respond to this group with a few details of current AQ activities under the auspices of the ESIP Federation??? I’ll be happy to chime in with any other information that may be helpful. As many of you are aware John White from EPA, Stuart Fyre GSFC, and I will be attending the Ispra meeting in support of this effort.
AIP Scenario Submitted to OGC -- TerryKeating 2 February 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
John, Rudy, and others,
I managed to go back in and reinput the material that I lost last night. So I think that the scenario is ready to go to the OGC site. Should I mail this to George? If I don't here back by tonight, that is what I will do. http://wiki.esipfed.org/index.php/AIP_AQ_Unified_Scenario
The wiki-markup text of the scenario is copied here (and as an attachment), in case that is a better way to move it.
When I get a chance later today, I will try to do more with the presentation template. My thinking about this was to help prepare a presentaiton that summarizes the scenario describes and then shows a number of examples of things that have already been done. David has pulled together some material for the examples.
Re: AIP Scenario Submitted to OGC -- Rhusar 2 February 2008[edit source | reply | new]
Good, I transfer the scenario to the OGC site along with the updated nano-report of the process....George is already on the move.
Dave you can upload any slides you have onto the wiki...and you can continuously update it there I am making the slide showing the "Community of Practice" process
... and I hope that for the sake of transparency to the others (the current and future members of the Group), its OK to place these conversations on the wiki..?!
Re: AIP Scenario Submitted to OGC -- Rhusar 2 February 2008[edit source | reply | new]
Hello AQ Cluster, Huh, what a Zone experience. My humble, objective and very tempered opinion is that the GEOSS AIP Air Quality scenario that John White has started and Terry Keating manufactured from the available parts is :) :) ....AWESOME!
- The Unified Scenario on the wiki now occupies the place for the Submitted Scenario
- The same has been submitted to the official OGC site for George and the others in AIP along with a comment.
A reality issue: The Pilot that is to execute this 'dream scenario' will take time to do. Really! My concern is not to get locked into an unrealistic time frame of months to execute the Pilot. (That was the case for the first AIP Pilot). If we are in this for the long-haul, should we explore with George Percivall and the AIP Brass if there is a way to execute the Pilot in stages? Certainly the AQ Data Network will take time..and time.
This Scenario preparation was a short, intense, participatory and productive experience. The ESIP AQ Cluster and Stefan's telecon sessions were a vital forum for interaction, so was the ESIP AQ wiki workspace. For those who could not participate in the Scenario development, the AIP process is not over...in fact it has barely begun. The Pilot is yet to come. If interested, please join us on the AIP Community of Practice (GEOSS lingo for this kind of group) ESIP website.
May a successful AIP Pilot be our reward!
Scenario PPT -- Rhusar 1 February 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Another thing. George Percivall just sent out this ppt template to be used for the Pilot presentations and discussion. Certainly, John White's presentation of the scenario stuff should be on this template. We can add one slide on the scenario preparation process... somewhat along this line.
During the short period, Jan 21-31, 2008, there was vigorous and productive discussion on various refinements to the initial EPA scenario. Telecon meetings and the wiki workspace were used to conduct the interaction of the diverse multi-agency-state-academic-industry group. These fed significant new ideas into the Pilot Scenario preparation process. Based on the various inputs, the EPA group was able to prepare a consensus scenario which takes into account both the information needs for scientific and policy assessment (historical, in-depth (re)analysis, modeling, etc), as well as for real-time analysis and forecasting during air pollution events. This scenario should provide a solid basis for the AQ scenario discussion at the Feb 4-5 Ispra AIP workshop. Also, I think that it would be meaningful to have Frank Lindsay present a few slides (using this template) during the Air Quality Session.
Re: Scenario PPT -- Rhusar 2 February 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
- Attached is a Scenario Process slide for the presentation.
- It would be good for you to send a note to George that the scenario is submitted on the OGC site.
Re: Re: Scenario PPT -- TerryKeating 2 February 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
John, Here is a start at a presentation. It begins with a summary of the scenario description and then moves to examples.
Re: Re: Re: Scenario PPT -- Rhusar 3 February 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Hi, Nice work,again, on the AIP AQ Scenario PPT. The scenario PPT will probably go public on the OGC site soon after the meeting. I touched up the uploaded PPT with a few initial links... and the front page. More links could be entered over the next few days. Will John have the time to go through the examples? How about time for Frank Lindsay's piece? Maybe other presenters?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Scenario PPT -- Davidmccabe 3 February 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Frank, John, I've made a couple changes to the powerpoint presentation. Here is a new link: http://wiki.esipfed.org/images/e/eb/08_02_03_AIP_AQ_scenario.ppt
One word: the idea behind the last slide, if it isn't clear, is simply a plea that we not have to build a new pipe (ie months of code) everytime somebody has a new scientific or policy idea. Or the same idea from a different location (mesoamerica vs. california). The air quality community has built a lot of interconnected datasets and systems over the years, and we can impress these folks with that and say, 'moving forward, let's do it in a better way.' Have a great time there, we are looking forward to hearing about it!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scenario PPT -- Jwhite airnow 4 February 2008 (EST)[edit source | reply | new]
Hi all. I have reviewed the web pages and downloaded the ppt. Frank has good intuition - the networks are poor. I am tethering my blackberry to my laptop and it is very slow and unstable. One desktop in lobby - 486 I think with no usb port. Sent wiki pages via pdf to my hotmail account - then managed to download to desktop (all in italian) and print. :-). Took a long time - can't believe I would have faster internet with my home dial-up than here...but hey. Don't have time to send 2.5 meg ppt - hopefully will print at JRC today. Thanks again for all of the prep work - I need to learn all of the acronyms/applications/projects..... :-) Will be fun today I am sure - weather lousy though.