https://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&feed=atom&action=historyTalk:Streaming and or netCDF File - Revision history2024-03-29T08:01:02ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.35.14https://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=34060&oldid=prevRhusar: moved Talk:Streaming and/or netCDF File to Talk:Streaming and or netCDF File2011-07-18T13:15:04Z<p>moved <a href="/Talk:Streaming_and/or_netCDF_File" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Streaming and/or netCDF File">Talk:Streaming and/or netCDF File</a> to <a href="/Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File" title="Talk:Streaming and or netCDF File">Talk:Streaming and or netCDF File</a></p>
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</td></tr></table>Rhusarhttps://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=34003&oldid=prevRhusar: /* Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Todd 12:56, 14 July 2011 (MDT) */2011-07-15T12:46:47Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Todd 12:56, 14 July 2011 (MDT)</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Concerning the streaming idea: it would indeed be wonderful to hear from Todd, Ben or Ethan how it is done/can be done or should be done.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Concerning the streaming idea: it would indeed be wonderful to hear from Todd, Ben or Ethan how it is done/can be done or should be done.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>====Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- [[User:<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Todd</del>|<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Todd</del>]] 12:56, 14 July 2011 (MDT)====</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>====Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- [[User:<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">TPlessel</ins>|<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">TPlassel</ins>]] 12:56, 14 July 2011 (MDT)====</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The concept is for data to be streamed over a socket from one process</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The concept is for data to be streamed over a socket from one process</div></td></tr>
</table>Rhusarhttps://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=34002&oldid=prevRhusar: /* Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Rhusar 06:29, 15 July 2011 (MDT) */2011-07-15T12:30:33Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Rhusar 06:29, 15 July 2011 (MDT)</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>planning for the end of 2011).</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>planning for the end of 2011).</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>====Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- [[User:<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Rhusar</del>|<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Rhusar</del>]] 06:29, 15 July 2011 (MDT)====</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>====Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- [[User:<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">JCaron</ins>|<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">JCaron</ins>]] 06:29, 15 July 2011 (MDT)====</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Ill just add these comments: We have experimented with streaming netcdf (classic format) files. It is possible, though one essentially needs to build a special library to do so, ie you cant use the usual netcdf API, which assumes random access. There still is a problem if you want to use the unlimited dimension: you have to know how many records you will have in the file before you start writing. If thats the case, then one can do it. I can send you some experimental Java code if you are interested.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Ill just add these comments: We have experimented with streaming netcdf (classic format) files. It is possible, though one essentially needs to build a special library to do so, ie you cant use the usual netcdf API, which assumes random access. There still is a problem if you want to use the unlimited dimension: you have to know how many records you will have in the file before you start writing. If thats the case, then one can do it. I can send you some experimental Java code if you are interested.</div></td></tr>
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</table>Rhusarhttps://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=34001&oldid=prevRhusar: /* Re: Streaming netCDF -- RRew 06:25, 15 July 2011 (MDT) */2011-07-15T12:29:46Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Re: Streaming netCDF -- RRew 06:25, 15 July 2011 (MDT)</span></span></p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l214" >Line 214:</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>intend to make it available in the next release (4.2, which we're</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>intend to make it available in the next release (4.2, which we're</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>planning for the end of 2011).</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>planning for the end of 2011).</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">====Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- [[User:Rhusar|Rhusar]] 06:29, 15 July 2011 (MDT)====</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ill just add these comments: We have experimented with streaming netcdf (classic format) files. It is possible, though one essentially needs to build a special library to do so, ie you cant use the usual netcdf API, which assumes random access. There still is a problem if you want to use the unlimited dimension: you have to know how many records you will have in the file before you start writing. If thats the case, then one can do it. I can send you some experimental Java code if you are interested.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">We decided that there were too many limitations to make this worthwhile for what is just a performance optimization on the server, so we have decided to not support this. (It might be a useful solution to build the file in memory if its small enough).</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ncstream is the direction we are currently exploring. This is essentially a new format for netcdf, but one that can be read by both the C and Java library, and easily transformed to netcdf-3 or 4. You can read the docs and ask questions if you are interested.</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Rhusarhttps://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=34000&oldid=prevRhusar: /* Re: Streaming netCDF -- Rhusar 06:25, 15 July 2011 (MDT) */2011-07-15T12:27:00Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Re: Streaming netCDF -- Rhusar 06:25, 15 July 2011 (MDT)</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Good point on "universal interoperability requires a single comprehensive (non-federated) data model".</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Good point on "universal interoperability requires a single comprehensive (non-federated) data model".</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Re: Streaming netCDF -- [[User:<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Rhusar</del>|<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Rhusar</del>]] 06:25, 15 July 2011 (MDT)===</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Re: Streaming netCDF -- [[User:<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">RRew</ins>|<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">RRew</ins>]] 06:25, 15 July 2011 (MDT)===</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Sorry to jump in so late, but Unidata has already implemented</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Sorry to jump in so late, but Unidata has already implemented</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>experimental netCDF streaming. I've added John Caron to the CC: list,</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>experimental netCDF streaming. I've added John Caron to the CC: list,</div></td></tr>
</table>Rhusarhttps://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=33999&oldid=prevRhusar: /* Streaming netCDF -- MDecker 06:40, 14 July 2011 (MDT) */2011-07-15T12:25:54Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Streaming netCDF -- MDecker 06:40, 14 July 2011 (MDT)</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Good point on "universal interoperability requires a single comprehensive (non-federated) data model".</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Good point on "universal interoperability requires a single comprehensive (non-federated) data model".</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">===Re: Streaming netCDF -- [[User:Rhusar|Rhusar]] 06:25, 15 July 2011 (MDT)===</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Sorry to jump in so late, but Unidata has already implemented</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">experimental netCDF streaming. I've added John Caron to the CC: list,</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">because he's the architect of the netCDF streaming protocol and APIs.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">For more information on what's already done, see these web pages on the</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">service API and the streaming protocol:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/stream/CdmRemote.html</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/stream/NcStream.html</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Unidata has also recently implemented client side handling for cdmremote</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">and the ncstream protocol in the C library, although it hasn't yet been</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">extensively tested. It's in the netCDF daily snapshot releases, and we</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">intend to make it available in the next release (4.2, which we're</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">planning for the end of 2011).</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Rhusarhttps://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=33992&oldid=prevRhusar: /* Re: Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Rhusar 08:22, 14 July 2011 (MDT) */2011-07-14T14:42:33Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Re: Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Rhusar 08:22, 14 July 2011 (MDT)</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The essence of my thinking is to identify where and when streaming is desirable/doable and when is the file approach more appropriate. As Martin point out below, the hart of the OGC WCS protocol is the space-time subsetting, i.e. slicing and dicing (multi-dim subsetting). These are essential 'features' that we can not do without. AQ data slices are generally modest in size and may not benefit much form streaming (true?). However slices make the life of the client much easier, particularly if these are strongly typed self-describing files, such as CF-netCDF. Such payload files can also carry additional, well structured metadata as further help to the user. So would you help us document the benefits and issues of streaming.. ?</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The essence of my thinking is to identify where and when streaming is desirable/doable and when is the file approach more appropriate. As Martin point out below, the hart of the OGC WCS protocol is the space-time subsetting, i.e. slicing and dicing (multi-dim subsetting). These are essential 'features' that we can not do without. AQ data slices are generally modest in size and may not benefit much form streaming (true?). However slices make the life of the client much easier, particularly if these are strongly typed self-describing files, such as CF-netCDF. Such payload files can also carry additional, well structured metadata as further help to the user. So would you help us document the benefits and issues of streaming.. ?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>You may also just point to something you have written and we can add it to [[Streaming_and/or_netCDF_File]] page</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>You may also just point to something you have written and we can add it to [[Streaming_and/or_netCDF_File]] page<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Good point on "universal interoperability requires a single comprehensive (non-federated) data model".</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Rhusarhttps://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=33991&oldid=prevRhusar: /* Re: Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Rhusar 08:22, 14 July 2011 (MDT) */2011-07-14T14:40:07Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Re: Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Rhusar 08:22, 14 July 2011 (MDT)</span></span></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:40, July 14, 2011</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l193" >Line 193:</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Todd, thanks a bunch for the streaming explanations. I am certain that streaming will be a significant issue as we start moving around larger chunks and more diverse data. So, I set up a [[Streaming_and/or_netCDF_File]] page fore this discussion page. There we can describe the main features/issues of streaming and CF-netCDF file approaches. Hope you can help us there. </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Todd, thanks a bunch for the streaming explanations. I am certain that streaming will be a significant issue as we start moving around larger chunks and more diverse data. So, I set up a [[Streaming_and/or_netCDF_File]] page fore this discussion page. There we can describe the main features/issues of streaming and CF-netCDF file approaches. Hope you can help us there. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The essence of my thinking is to identify where and when streaming is desirable/doable and when is the file approach more appropriate. As Martin point out below, the hart of the OGC WCS protocol is the space-time subsetting, i.e. slicing and dicing (multi-dim subsetting). These are essential 'features' that we can not do without. AQ data slices are generally modest in size and may not benefit much form streaming (true?). However slices make the life of the client much easier, particularly if these are strongly typed self-describing files, such as CF-netCDF. Such payload files can also carry additional, well structured metadata as further help to the user.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The essence of my thinking is to identify where and when streaming is desirable/doable and when is the file approach more appropriate. As Martin point out below, the hart of the OGC WCS protocol is the space-time subsetting, i.e. slicing and dicing (multi-dim subsetting). These are essential 'features' that we can not do without. AQ data slices are generally modest in size and may not benefit much form streaming (true?). However slices make the life of the client much easier, particularly if these are strongly typed self-describing files, such as CF-netCDF. Such payload files can also carry additional, well structured metadata as further help to the user. <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">So would you help us document the benefits and issues of streaming.. ?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">You may also just point to something you have written and we can add it to [[Streaming_and/or_netCDF_File]] page</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Streaming is best for what situation?</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
</table>Rhusarhttps://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=33989&oldid=prevRhusar: /* Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Todd 12:56, 14 July 2011 (MDT) */2011-07-14T14:22:31Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- Todd 12:56, 14 July 2011 (MDT)</span></span></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:22, July 14, 2011</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>should start more quickly as the file does not have to be generated</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>should start more quickly as the file does not have to be generated</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>completely before download begins.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>completely before download begins.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">=====Re: Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- [[User:Rhusar|Rhusar]] 08:22, 14 July 2011 (MDT)=====</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Todd, thanks a bunch for the streaming explanations. I am certain that streaming will be a significant issue as we start moving around larger chunks and more diverse data. So, I set up a [[Streaming_and/or_netCDF_File]] page fore this discussion page. There we can describe the main features/issues of streaming and CF-netCDF file approaches. Hope you can help us there. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The essence of my thinking is to identify where and when streaming is desirable/doable and when is the file approach more appropriate. As Martin point out below, the hart of the OGC WCS protocol is the space-time subsetting, i.e. slicing and dicing (multi-dim subsetting). These are essential 'features' that we can not do without. AQ data slices are generally modest in size and may not benefit much form streaming (true?). However slices make the life of the client much easier, particularly if these are strongly typed self-describing files, such as CF-netCDF. Such payload files can also carry additional, well structured metadata as further help to the user.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Streaming is best for what situation?</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Rhusarhttps://wiki.esipfed.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Streaming_and_or_netCDF_File&diff=33988&oldid=prevRhusar: /* Re: Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- MSchultz 07:39, 14 July 2011 (MDT) */2011-07-14T13:49:07Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Re: Re: Re: Streaming netCDF -- MSchultz 07:39, 14 July 2011 (MDT)</span></span></p>
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<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 129:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># rather than looping through individual dimensions and variables, it might be more efficient if an API command existed which would return the entire header in a predefined structure. <br></div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># rather than looping through individual dimensions and variables, it might be more efficient if an API command existed which would return the entire header in a predefined structure. <br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Naturally this would come with limitations and some memory overhead, but perhaps it would be possible to define a structure that is good for 99.9% of all netcdf files. This could be some record structure like (pseudo code):</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Naturally this would come with limitations and some memory overhead, but perhaps it would be possible to define a structure that is good for 99.9% of all netcdf files. This could be some record structure like (pseudo code):</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> dims[32] # personally I never saw a netcdf file with more than 8 dimensions</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> dims[32] # personally I never saw a netcdf file with more than 8 dimensions</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> { long(len)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> { long(len)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l139" >Line 139:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 138:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> char[1024] global_attr</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> char[1024] global_attr</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A structure like this would have a predefined size of 290K (with a little tweaking one should be able to fit this into a 256K block) and you would then have all the size information available that you need to stream the actual data (= variable content). Of course some provision must exist for (the probably very rare) cases where the dimension limits of this predefined structure are exceeded. In this case some error code would force the system to revert to normal API use or simply to fail. In the case of attributes one can perhaps establish a "preference list" so that important attributes like units are always included and if the buffer length is exceeded the rest will simply be cut off. One would still have the chance to go back and get the rest via the traditional get_attribute way. ...perhaps one would wish to include an "int state" flag for each variable to indicate if the given information is complete?</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A structure like this would have a predefined size of 290K (with a little tweaking one should be able to fit this into a 256K block) and you would then have all the size information available that you need to stream the actual data (= variable content). Of course some provision must exist for (the probably very rare) cases where the dimension limits of this predefined structure are exceeded. In this case some error code would force the system to revert to normal API use or simply to fail. In the case of attributes one can perhaps establish a "preference list" so that important attributes like units are always included and if the buffer length is exceeded the rest will simply be cut off. One would still have the chance to go back and get the rest via the traditional get_attribute way. ...perhaps one would wish to include an "int state" flag for each variable to indicate if the given information is complete?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
</table>Rhusar